Curse

Benderama · Mar 01, 2010, 08:43 PM // 20:43

howdy hoo (if anyone sees this)

didn't know where to put this so sorry in advance ^^;
anywho, whilst searching for the Guild wars novel today i found this instead Living In Guild Wars: A Cultural Analysis of the Discourse, Dance, and Evolution of a
first of all is this book going on about GW ? it doesn't mention anything specific , there are no reviews and nothing in the forums or anything helpful on google (ish)
has anyone else seen this? or even better has anyone actually read it?

sorry if this is all complete rubbish and anything or it trns out not to be a book or something

Snograt · Mar 02, 2010, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amazon

Massive multiplayer online gaming (MMOG) is a concept that has been around for about 25 years. As technology has evolved, so has the capability to create a realistic, immersive and social gaming environment that has a mass appeal. In spite of this technological evolution, there has been little naturalistic inquiry of what virtual gaming environments are like. This is a qualitative cultural study of the massive multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG), Guild Wars®. Using ethnographic methods, participant observation for a period of 130 hours, and discourse analysis of external game forum chat we explore what this world is truly like. As a result, we gain a better understanding of how people can become immersed, even obsessed with MMOGs. Several communication concepts are explored in the virtual environment including: Baudrillard?s simulacra, Bourdieu?s concept of capital, and the notion of gender based hegemonic relationships. Designed to be read by MMOG novices and experts alike, Living in Guild Wars® offers support that virtual reality has become actual Reality for many MMOG players. This study presents ground breaking work in the study of emerging social communities online.

Yeesh.

At $103 I'm not going to find out any time soon, either.

Benderama · Mar 02, 2010, 08:49 PM // 20:49

thats kinda why i was wondering what it all is unless its just a complete rip off ^^; probably will turn out not to be related at all

Earth · Mar 02, 2010, 09:34 PM // 21:34

Well, from what I understand it's about a study about the communities and cultures in MMORPGs, using Guild Wars as a testing ground. Or something like that.

Ravious · Mar 12, 2010, 10:53 AM // 10:53

I am not sure... the author only spent 103 hours of "study." A researcher could spend that time merely on HA elitism. Second, did the author contact ArenaNet for data? There was a similar study in EQ2 where SOE gave the researchers terabytes of information... did this author get anything on the inside?

I am going to look in to the author's other papers/works/etc. too.

JR · Mar 12, 2010, 10:57 AM // 10:57

My copy arrived today. I plan on doing a review/response once I'm finished reading it - I'll try to remember to link it in this thread.

*Darcy* · Mar 12, 2010, 11:25 AM // 11:25

Sounds like someone published their thesis. And the GW novel has a publish date in July.

Abedeus · Mar 12, 2010, 12:20 PM // 12:20

More than $70 for a book? Or anything?

MirkoTeran · Mar 12, 2010, 01:25 PM // 13:25

WTB PDF download link.

distilledwill · Mar 12, 2010, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Looks very interesting, the kind of research I hope to be doing eventually! The virtual world, and how people use it to create "real" things fascinates me. If you're interested in this kind of thing, try Sherrie Turkle's work - particularly "Life on the Screen - Identity in the age of the Internet" hugely interesting work.

But yes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirkoteran

WTB PDF download link.

yes please!

JR · Mar 12, 2010, 01:45 PM // 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by MirkoTeran

WTB PDF download link.

Given the price of the book I don't imagine any legitimate source is giving it away for free.

[EDIT: Ravious sent me this link to a PDF download. It's free if you meet certain academic criteria, otherwise it's $42 for the download. There's also a 24 page free preview. http://gradworks.umi.com/14/34/1434980.html ]

Divinitys Creature · Mar 13, 2010, 09:28 PM // 21:28

I'm tempted by the relation to Baudrillard's work Simulacra and Simulation but discouraged by the lame-ass 100 hours of gameplay it is based on and forum activity. 2000+ hours would have made me buy the book because that is a meaningful amount of time to know the game world and social dynamics (including life with a guild playing at the top tiers) properly IMHO.

Snograt · Mar 14, 2010, 12:34 AM // 00:34

100 hours? Pfft, what can you learn in a week?

Abedeus · Mar 14, 2010, 08:01 AM // 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snograt

100 hours? Pfft, what can you learn in a week?

What is even funnier, author played for 100 hours and asks for a $ for every hour he PLAYED A VIDEO GAME.

If I write a book about Diablo 2, can I demand $2000 for it?

worstnameevar · Mar 17, 2010, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

Given the price of the book I don't imagine any legitimate source is giving it away for free.

[EDIT: Ravious sent me this link to a PDF download. It's free if you meet certain academic criteria, otherwise it's $42 for the download. There's also a 24 page free preview. http://gradworks.umi.com/14/34/1434980.html ]

I'm guessing you have to have graduate level access... either that or my local CC doesn't pay enough for full access to ProQuest.

Bill Easternview · Mar 21, 2010, 07:11 AM // 07:11

I downloaded the 24 page preview and read through it. First, the date of this is 2006, so it's early GW culture, not the current game. Second, it does state that the work is based on 130 hours of play/observation plus forum review, which I would characterize as minimal familiarity with the game and player culture at best. Finally, this was submitted for a Master of Arts in the College of Communication at the University of South Alabama, so the author probably had limited previous experience in academic research and limited time to perform their research. Its certainly more than just a term paper, but its not the product of an veteran academic with access to ArenaNet insider data. People should also remember that studies like this are primarily done to demonstrate the author knows how to do academic research, not to discover GREAT TRUTHS, that has to wait until you have your PhD (Doctorate).

The abstract contains some statements that may be humorous or insulting, depending on how serious you take your gaming. The author also throws in some unfamiliar buzz-words from academia, so there may be more insults or compliments that I just don't get. The excerpt does not contain the whole paper naturally, but the entire index is included and some of the section headings seem dubious to me. I can only guess where the author was going with a section titled: Gender, that includes figures with titles of: Sex Sells Ex(ample ?) and Sex Sells Ex., note camera angle. The author states in the abstract (quote) Players of the game often become so immersed that they blur reality and fantasy. (end quote) and (quote) This study offers support that virtual reality has become Reality for many MMOG players. (end quote) People with hundreds or thousands of hours experience playing Guild Wars might draw different conclusions I suspect.

So wherever Cristin Etheredge (BS, BA and MA) is, I wonder if she is still working on the topic of MMORPG's? My principle conclusion from reading the excerpt is that to do real substantive work on the topic of MMORPG's the researcher needs to work with cooperation from one or more of the vendors who runs a game with a large user base. A person with access to the contents of Anet's servers and to their long serving employees could probably develop real insights. For example, it's not obvious to me if Ms Etheredge understood that you cannot tell the gender of the human from the gender of the avatars they create. Only access to Anet billing and other records could provide a real handle of the gender breakdown of the user base, and even then there would be cases where the credit card of a parent or spouse might have been used to open an account for player of the other gender. I wonder, for example, if people usually stick with one gender for their avatars, or if some people choose gender randomly, only account records could tell you that. I wonder, for example, if players could be classified/grouped/categorized by their log-in habits, are some people in every day for months on end while others log in one weekend a month, are some on a boom and bust cycle (daily for a week or two then not for months). Ms Etheredge notes that GW uses a different cash flow model than other MMORPG's; is there a different pattern of activity for people who pay every month versus those who pay once and play forever? You would need inside data from GW and WoW to figure that one out.

Personally I think there is academic work to be done in the MMORPG field, I would bet there is a PhD or two in ECONOMICS hiding in the Anet or WoW servers, if a summer intern can only talk their way in.

Divinitys Creature · Mar 22, 2010, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Easternview

I downloaded the 24 page preview and read through it. First, the date of this is 2006, so it's early GW culture, not the current game. Second, it does state that the work is based on 130 hours of play/observation plus forum review, which I would characterize as minimal familiarity with the game and player culture at best. Finally, this was submitted for a Master of Arts in the College of Communication at the University of South Alabama, so the author probably had limited previous experience in academic research and limited time to perform their research. Its certainly more than just a term paper, but its not the product of an veteran academic with access to ArenaNet insider data. People should also remember that studies like this are primarily done to demonstrate the author knows how to do academic research, not to discover GREAT TRUTHS, that has to wait until you have your PhD (Doctorate).

The abstract contains some statements that may be humorous or insulting, depending on how serious you take your gaming. The author also throws in some unfamiliar buzz-words from academia, so there may be more insults or compliments that I just don't get. The excerpt does not contain the whole paper naturally, but the entire index is included and some of the section headings seem dubious to me. I can only guess where the author was going with a section titled: Gender, that includes figures with titles of: Sex Sells Ex(ample ?) and Sex Sells Ex., note camera angle. The author states in the abstract (quote) Players of the game often become so immersed that they blur reality and fantasy. (end quote) and (quote) This study offers support that virtual reality has become Reality for many MMOG players. (end quote) People with hundreds or thousands of hours experience playing Guild Wars might draw different conclusions I suspect.

So wherever Cristin Etheredge (BS, BA and MA) is, I wonder if she is still working on the topic of MMORPG's? My principle conclusion from reading the excerpt is that to do real substantive work on the topic of MMORPG's the researcher needs to work with cooperation from one or more of the vendors who runs a game with a large user base. A person with access to the contents of Anet's servers and to their long serving employees could probably develop real insights. For example, it's not obvious to me if Ms Etheredge understood that you cannot tell the gender of the human from the gender of the avatars they create. Only access to Anet billing and other records could provide a real handle of the gender breakdown of the user base, and even then there would be cases where the credit card of a parent or spouse might have been used to open an account for player of the other gender. I wonder, for example, if people usually stick with one gender for their avatars, or if some people choose gender randomly, only account records could tell you that. I wonder, for example, if players could be classified/grouped/categorized by their log-in habits, are some people in every day for months on end while others log in one weekend a month, are some on a boom and bust cycle (daily for a week or two then not for months). Ms Etheredge notes that GW uses a different cash flow model than other MMORPG's; is there a different pattern of activity for people who pay every month versus those who pay once and play forever? You would need inside data from GW and WoW to figure that one out.

Personally I think there is academic work to be done in the MMORPG field, I would bet there is a PhD or two in ECONOMICS hiding in the Anet or WoW servers, if a summer intern can only talk their way in.

I get the impression you could write a better book. I am not being sarcastic.

The Template · Mar 22, 2010, 03:09 AM // 03:09

It doesnt take a PhD to recognise garbage.

DreamRunner · Mar 22, 2010, 05:59 AM // 05:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Easternview

I downloaded the 24 page preview and read through it. First, the date of this is 2006, so it's early GW culture, not the current game. Second, it does state that the work is based on 130 hours of play/observation plus forum review, which I would characterize as minimal familiarity with the game and player culture at best. Finally, this was submitted for a Master of Arts in the College of Communication at the University of South Alabama, so the author probably had limited previous experience in academic research and limited time to perform their research. Its certainly more than just a term paper, but its not the product of an veteran academic with access to ArenaNet insider data. People should also remember that studies like this are primarily done to demonstrate the author knows how to do academic research, not to discover GREAT TRUTHS, that has to wait until you have your PhD (Doctorate).

The abstract contains some statements that may be humorous or insulting, depending on how serious you take your gaming. The author also throws in some unfamiliar buzz-words from academia, so there may be more insults or compliments that I just don't get. The excerpt does not contain the whole paper naturally, but the entire index is included and some of the section headings seem dubious to me. I can only guess where the author was going with a section titled: Gender, that includes figures with titles of: Sex Sells Ex(ample ?) and Sex Sells Ex., note camera angle. The author states in the abstract (quote) Players of the game often become so immersed that they blur reality and fantasy. (end quote) and (quote) This study offers support that virtual reality has become Reality for many MMOG players. (end quote) People with hundreds or thousands of hours experience playing Guild Wars might draw different conclusions I suspect.

So wherever Cristin Etheredge (BS, BA and MA) is, I wonder if she is still working on the topic of MMORPG's? My principle conclusion from reading the excerpt is that to do real substantive work on the topic of MMORPG's the researcher needs to work with cooperation from one or more of the vendors who runs a game with a large user base. A person with access to the contents of Anet's servers and to their long serving employees could probably develop real insights. For example, it's not obvious to me if Ms Etheredge understood that you cannot tell the gender of the human from the gender of the avatars they create. Only access to Anet billing and other records could provide a real handle of the gender breakdown of the user base, and even then there would be cases where the credit card of a parent or spouse might have been used to open an account for player of the other gender. I wonder, for example, if people usually stick with one gender for their avatars, or if some people choose gender randomly, only account records could tell you that. I wonder, for example, if players could be classified/grouped/categorized by their log-in habits, are some people in every day for months on end while others log in one weekend a month, are some on a boom and bust cycle (daily for a week or two then not for months). Ms Etheredge notes that GW uses a different cash flow model than other MMORPG's; is there a different pattern of activity for people who pay every month versus those who pay once and play forever? You would need inside data from GW and WoW to figure that one out.

Personally I think there is academic work to be done in the MMORPG field, I would bet there is a PhD or two in ECONOMICS hiding in the Anet or WoW servers, if a summer intern can only talk their way in.

I agree with you entirely. More so about how the authors incentive will be how he or she can demonstrate academic research and if it is a cultural analysis, they're going to be topics which will be very typical of a social science background. For instance, gender as you brought up is taught in nearly every level in the Arts, Business and Finance schools of University. What I am trying to get at is this paper won't be anything different from a lot of other academic research which has been done in the past. Although focusing on MMORPGs is something different, but I suspect her overall perspective of cultural interaction between players won't be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

More than $70 for a book? Or anything?

University text books are usually $100+.

*Darcy* · Mar 22, 2010, 04:54 PM // 16:54

@Bill Easternview - And it is so easy to get an idea of the male/female spread instead of making uninformed assumptions. Here is a link to a poll done on this forum that gives a sample breakout of account owner's gender vs character gender.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/m...highlight=poll